Otakon 2008 Wrap-Up: Industry x Fansubs
There are some anime fans who are all jittery about the state of the anime industry. I think that’s not an unwarranted approach to the reality of today. Otakon this year offered a chance to bring some industry folks along with fansubbers to talk about exactly this, in terms of how fansubbing affects sales and fan culture. Or maybe it is the other way around?
The round-table discussion is one that is historically a little taboo between the competing interests between the fans and what they want versus the rights and economic interests of the commercial side of things. The legitimacy clashes with the illegitimacy but reverence is paid to those who, at one point, affected the nature of fandom that is within most American anime fans. Appropriately the panel is focused on such issues regarding the impact of fansubbed anime on the actual and potential sales of different interests of the companies.
The format of the panel was mostly, heh, what I would’ve done at my aborted blogging panel. The bulk of the time was spent going through about 9 different questions addressed to the panelists. Q&A lasted for only a few questions before we ran out of time. As you can imagine, the nature of the panel depends greatly on the fansubbers and the industry people at the panel.
As opposed to just listing who’s on the panel, it’s more interesting to list where they are coming from.
1. The Media Blaster guys: old and weary veterans of the industry. Sells porn for much of their profit; fans since way back. Targets niches like porn and, heh, Simoun.
2. The Funimation guy: newer into the market, deals with the bigger vision. Does new fangled technological stuff with big/popular licenses. Got numbers.
3. Dattebayo: … people who fansub Naruto and the ultra-ultra-popular stuff.
4. Live-Evil : older school fansubbers, plays more by the book.
5. Shinsen subs: Your average digisubber but with a longer history.
Before I go deeper into the panel I think I should post a couple pictures to describe what I think highlights the key point that I’ve repeatedly tried to make on my own blog. Except now it’s coincidentally memorialized by a similar message that is totally non-sequitor-ish, yet also so fitting.
A. This is a picture of the “State of the industry” panel at Otakon. It was an industry panel Funimation threw together the morning after the Industry/Fansub panel. Funimation had a couple guys going off with their pro-fan PR. It’s not exactly a surprise that they need to reach out to the ‘fans’ with inheriting Geneon and ARM/Sojitz’s titles. It is a shift from their traditional “what sells well” strategy but they’re rising up to the challenge.
B. This is a picture of Tofu-sensei from Tofu-sensei’s party on Saturday night. Tofu-sensei is the guy who moderated and organized the Fansub/Industry panel.
I prefer B over A, IMO.
And by the way, the Fansub/Industry panel did manage to fill up the same room the “State of the Industry” panel was in. I tried to get a picture but, well, there was this technical difficulty which sucked big time. So drunken Tofu it is.
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Chronologically I can go through the Q&A’s, but I think it’s better to just address what I thought was note-worthy.
1. Companies like Media Blaster have very different interests than companies like Funimation if you get into the nitty gritty. In essence, a person who buys, oh, I don’t know, Gunparade March, is not likely the same person who buys Ouran Host Club (that said I would buy both…). However, both MB and Funi are probably printing money with titles like Dragon Ball Z and Bible Black. They do some things differently, but I can’t imagine either title to be not lucrative. And it’s that sort of thing that keeps these companies afloat today even when the economic cconditions are not exactly sunshines and rainbows.
2. Piracy or fansubbing or whatever of, say, Naruto, actually doesn’t affect companies like Media Blaster. This is one part of a running theme through out the panel–even if the R1 publishers are all affected by fansubbing, they are not on the same boat together in a way. In fact the crowd cracked up when one of the MB guys openly admittedjoked to watching fansubs of Funi shows and has no problems with any of us doing the same. This is nigh ironic in a way because it begins to highlight the nature of fansubbing and the effect it has on sales is not something that can be modeled one way. Or maybe even two ways.
3. At one point, John Sirabella went into “old man” mode and started to crack some Dattebayo whippersnappers. That’s as close to drama as it gets for the night I thought. But he does paint the basic picture coming from old school fans who actually are not stupid/ignorant about the state of the industry. I am definitely biased towards him as my own experience tend to mirror his, but to paraphrase, there are two kinds of markets. There’s the collectors, who are older and have the purchasing power; and then there’s the kids who go to cons in cosplay (why were there so many girls cosplaying as guys this year at Otakon?) with their bf/gf/bff/mom and have $15 in the pocket, and that’s going towards gas, not anime. Accordingly, collectors generally do not buy Naruto; in fact they generally do not buy any one title, but a wide variety of stuff. Just think of the special interest crowd that’s propping up the shoujo/yuri/yaoi releases. It’s coming out more in the US now because it sells well relative to how much it cost to produce/market it. It coasts on scanlations and fansubs, instead of competing with it.
Earlier I mentioned that it is ironic to laugh at fansubs when your market is the small, niche one that is more likely to be impacted by fansubbing’s displacement effect. But in reality when you are selling with higher margins to a very niche market that has that collector’s mentality, it is relatively protected from the effects of fansubs; at least the impact is predictable. A lot of us who argues the fansubber’s displacement effect is balanced from its marketing effect because we buy what we watch fansubbed probably falls into this category. In other words, we’re really outside of the equation when we’re arguing about a model of seeing the impact of fansubs that applies to shows like Naruto. (Which, I think, is different compared to shows like Code Geass to shows like FLCL to shows like Shuffle to shows like Simoun.)
Speaking of which, does any of you remember of going to cons with no girls at it? I thought that was a good line.
4. To me, and I don’t keep taps on the never-ending Dattebayo drama/self-culture so I don’t know for sure, a lot of what they said are quite suspicious, borderlining entirely bullcrap. Like, always comply with C&D? Really? The one guy was quoting some survey they did with visitors on their site, and we were like wwwww. Srsly?
5. The Funi guy, Lance Heiskell, definitely took the opportunity and gave a soft PR pitch. A while ago I wrote a post on RightStuf’s Dark Lord and I think Heiskell was doing something similar here. His efforts were admirable but when you throw buzz words like “creator’s rights” it just makes me chuckle.
6. Another small irony I found is the overall displeasure about streaming sites. I suppose it is a matter of control, but all the fansubbers on the panel did not like seeing their fansubs on youtube. Dattebayo actually issues takedown notices to youtube! That’s just amusing. The issue with control is one that fansubbers always had to struggle with since the beginning (and appropriately Sirabella mentioned S. Badric for good lulz, although on an unrelated topic) and the reality is that once the file is distributed, it’s out of people’s hands. It seems Heiskell didn’t realize this in term of IRC distribution and the Live-Evil/Shinsen guys cleared this up for him.
7. I think Lance Heiskell really thought about 0-day distribution, or as I say it, day-date distribution as you see with the like of Gonzo’s streaming efforts. He laundry listed what has to be done to get it to happen, but the various obstacles there are nothing we didn’t know before. I think Heiskell also listed some other things, like where to download anime. Not like we need any help with that amirite…
Sirabella chimed in also on the whole VOD thing, and obviously to him it’s not going to be the “solution” because far most of the money of the “industry” comes from home video sales, and this industry, as I see it from Sirabella’s perspective, the collectors who don’t really want disposable entertainment but want archival quality stuff.
8. Sirabella made a comment, perhaps to the benefit of Tofu-sensei, that this discussion is incomplete until we can get a retailer to the table. If a Best Buy guy (or someone like RightStuf/Animenation) was there to give us the real numbers and trends from the trenches, we can get a better picture. I hope we get something like this next year.
9. I think the crowd cheered (I sure did) when the guy from MB talked about “lol karaoke subs” and how he finds it retarded to see on fansubs. Srsly. This is a topic that gets repeated every year at Otakon’s fansub panel I think. So just stop doing it already.
10. Lance Heiskell did say one thing important–there’s no reason to be so hostile. Everywhere I go online when this topic comes up, some people are all up in arms one way or another. I think that is just stupid and they’re not helping. To people like Sirabella, fansubbing has been around since forever, and his business has to live with it since its conception. It’s not like he went into it blind either; he’s as into fansubbing as anyone way back when. But he deals with it; reap what rewards it gives you and minimize its impact to your bottom line. I guess to some that means watch fansubs of other companies’ anime so you can live with your low salary? :)
To put this TL;DR post to rest, I think the work is cut out for us. I just hope we’re not too late. I know a lot of fans online are still stuck on this “industry v. fansubs” mentality when it ought to be “industry x fansubs” if you truly want to save the industry. Maybe they’re just mistaken or ignorant, but that’s just no good. We are dirty otaku, right? Not some high rolling Wall St. werewolves trying to salvage our sinking portfolios, who can only manipulate the law to change human behavior. We use RISING HEARTS and BURNING SPIRIT?
If you want some detailed notes, hit up THAT Anime Blog and click on the “show” widget at the appropriate section. He doesn’t have everything but it’s got the meat of it, including the detail list of panelists.
Bullet-Point Hit and Run
In celebration of another episode of Xam’d downloaded, more pictures of Ishu Benikawa in various state of dress, undress, soberness, drunkenness, and more Houko-mom lines, here are a bunch of things that you might be interested. Yes, I’m just posting Xam’d screens and avoiding any plot descriptions–rest assured it is just another build-up episode.
RenAi Blogger Is Hinano’s Neo Venezia
Originally I was trying to rig up a poll and ask you “which RenAi Blogger characters did you end up with the first time”? But I changed my mind after giving the game a full, complete play through.
If you haven’t had the chance, an avid AVG gamer will devour this simple, multi-pathing romance adventure in an hour; it should take just 10 minutes or so to get to your first ending as a normal person. Download it at Hinano’s today!
What’s so charming to me about this game is that, believe it or not, is a true to life guide to the life of a weeaboo in Manhattan, looking through Hinano’s eyes. For one, if you are Chinese, for example, you would do your anime craves differently. And I don’t know anyone from NYU who’d hike up to Bryant Park for lulz. But hey, Chase is in otaku paradise.
But having visited many of the places she mentioned in the game, there’s a sense of familiarity and fear at the same time. If I ran into JP and Hinano I will so get lampooned… You think Author’s had it bad?
In all seriousness, in a small and tidy package Hinano and her crew has put together a very solid and thoughtful story that both paints a new look to the various things she ranted about on her blog and gave them life. At the same time she did a great job expressing her online voice (and…probably some offline voice too) in the different characterizations and personalities in the game. The whole thing may be a little contrived but it felt very natural, almost to a degree of innocence.
If Akari was a weeaboo, this is the kind of experience I expect her to deliver if I sign up for a tour?
And the game is cute. The same way a doujinshi is cute, almost. In a non-ero way. Including Impz. I have to say Natsuko is my favorite however :pedobear:
Glossing over the roughness of the production, I think it’s a good use of an hour of your time. Especially if you run around in Manhattan. If you don’t, it’s a good tourist manual (in a very loose sense).
Lastly–JP and Hinano should’ve tried to tie in all those commercial endorsement. I bet some Japanese organization in the city would love to promote her game because it does a good job promoting the different cultural establishments in the city. I wonder who you’d talk to in order to make that happen…
JAM IT IN @ Otakon 2008
Despite the misleading blog post title, all I’m really going to say is more JAM Project and Otakon nonsense. I realize a lot of my readers are far away and unable to get to Otakon even if they wanted to go, but please bear with me just a few more days \o/
1. JAM Project will most likely be at the opening ceremony at Otakon, which is another reason why you should check it out, along with their original opening animation (IIRC?) and other nonsense.
2. The JAM Project Concert is slated to start 7:30pm on Friday, at least I think that’s how it is scheduled now. While that means no Touhou panel for omo almost for sure, that also means the doors will open earlier, and less time in the sun for the long lineup.
3. Autographing is tentatively scheduled at 2:30, which follows the 12:30-2:00 panel on Saturday. It seems that they will use a ticketing system this year, so make sure you go to the panel if you want an autograph (and shame on you if you don’t)! That applies to not just JAM Project, but probably all the other guests. Maybe. Some of the Sunday musical guests will also have a table with stuff to buy after the show for the concert attendees on Sunday, but they might also have panels that takes place right before their Saturday autograph sessions. As an aside, there’s also an autograph session on Sunday noon for all the dub actors and Mr. Maruyama, and possibly others who have the time to do it. Industry will also have sponsored autographing at their dealer room booths for some dub actors and what not. There’s also a possibility that JAM Project will have something after the show, but I think it’s not likely. Just some potential possibilities for you to keep in mind, however slim they may be.
Commonly asked questions about autographs are best answered by Otakon’s autographing policy. For that matter, you should also read the gifts policy (anyone bringing a gift? I might) and guide on interacting with guests at that link.
4. Otakon just announced the guess-the-guest winners from their JAM Project announcement today. The winners are (copypasta):
- Daniel Park - Swag Bag, Express Pass, Reserved Seat (2)
- Chris Lane - Swag Bag, Express Pass, Reserved Seats (2)
- Jeff Chuang - Express Pass
- Phil Kwok - Express Pass
Express Pass means they get to skip the autograph line. Reserved Seats means their seats are reserved for them at the VIP/Press section at the concert so they can skip that line too, when the door to the venue opens. Swag Bag…probably has swag in it. Beats me what’s in it. The contest winners are determined randomly from people who submitted the right guesses.
5. Finally, it’s not too late to get on omo’s mailing list of Doom and Otakon related activities! Put it in the comments saying you are interested, or email me (click on the “omo” link below by Posted By). The ML is mostly going to be omo sending a couple updates as the con draws near(er), especially if you want to meet us. So far we’re just going to chill and sing some JAM Project anthems, but who knows! And there’s still twitter, which hopefully I’ll get to use and read more as con time draws near. I am so inept with this thing, maybe I’m getting old.
This year’s Otakon coverage for me started when I made a conscious effort to read the Otakon forums regularly. It really made the leading-up to it enjoyable because I can just parrot all the news there LOL. And also it’s good to see some of the stuff behind the scenes when fan and industry collide at one of these convention things that I go every year. I tend to blog where my mind is, so the flurry of Otakon-related posts this past month are really showing that I’ve already left the building… I suppose that’s nothing new.
Last thing: it’s time to draw up some questions for the JAM Project panel. Individual or group questions are fine. Got any good ones? Toss it away.
Otakon Scheduling
I guess I can post what I’m going to cover at Otakon. I tend to only do a bit of the US industry stuff since it’s so well-covered by everyone else. Plus it doesn’t interest me as much as actual, mid-production stuff being shown-off like what will surely happen at the Madhouse panel.
Anyways, their full finalized schedule is up. It’s subject to change and it will change, as always, all the way up until the actual panel/event/whatever.
And my own schedule will change too, I can almost guarantee it…
Friday:
- Panel 3 from 1:00pm to 4:00pm - Lantis, Opening Ceremony, Madhouse
- Panel 1 from 6:00pm to 7:00pm - Touhou (maybe)
Saturday:
- Panel 1 from 9:00am to 10:00am - Anime is Serious Business
- Panel 2 from 11:00am to 12:00noon - Bandai
- Panel 4 from 12:30pm to 2:00pm - JAM Project
- Panel 2 from 2:00pm to 3:00pm - Kadokawa (not likely)
- Panel 2 from 4:30pm to 6:00pm - Pony Canyon (meh?)
- Panel 4 from 5:30pm to 7:00pm - Fansubbing/Industry (maybe)
- Panel 1 from 6:00pm to 7:00pm - Satoshi Kon Fan panel (maybe)
- Panel 2 from 9:00pm to 10:30pm - Bandai Surprise (probably)
- Otacafe from 8:00-ish pm to 9:00pm - Waiting from random internet people to say hi
- Otacafe from 9:00pm to whenever pm - LOL Karaoke
Sunday:
- Panel 1 from 1:00pm to 2:00pm - ADV (maybe)
- Panel 2 from 1:00pm to 2:00pm - Udon (maybe)
Sometime Saturday afternoon, I am predicting, is the autograph session for JAM Project.
And sometime Friday (possibly before, or after the Touhou panel) I’ll be in line for the concert. Only if someone would hold my place in line for like an hour and a half.
And hopefully operation glowstick will pan out.
I would probably go to the dealer’s room after the Madhouse panel or before the Lantis panel on Friday, only just so I can scope out the place and make sure I don’t miss anything super obvious and good to know.
There is actually no video programming I want to watch this year at all, which is somewhat unusual. I always at least want to see one thing. Otakon has ditched their 35mm programming and oped for HD projection. Not a bad choice this year I suppose.
And if it wasn’t obvious, I’ll be at the JAM Project show at 8pm Friday and probably at the Jrock thing Sunday. The latter I’ll just show up and see, not going to line up.
I would like to go to the Kadokawa US Premiere panel but I don’t think it’ll fit. I know, nothing’s conflicting with it on the schedule, but this is a total hunch/foresight through experience. Likewise with Pony Canyon. Why is that panel 1.5 hours long anyways?
And while I don’t particularly harbor any ill will towards anyone, it seems fitting if something violent and awesome happened at the fansubbing panel. I suppose it’s a good panel to go meet internet peoples; you got a large room and not enough people interested to fill it up, and hopefully they’ll do this very chill. Tofu-sensei should not disappoint. This year, Otakon is hosting these people, and I cut/paste:
Featured panelists include John Sirabella, CEO of Media Blasters, Lance Heiskell, Director of Marketing for Funimation, and veteran representatives from Live-eviL, Shinsen, Anime-Empire, and Dattebayo fansubbing groups.
That is awesome. Of course Sirabella is a different kind of beast, but I don’t think a whole lot of Lance Heiskell from what I read. Hopefully that’ll change.
